Henry: The biggest thing was this: the success we had with ABC was by getting people involved, to say their piece, to take time to go, you know, look for grates, to take time for press events of different sorts. One press event for Bike to Work Day. Another for the Bike Commuter Challenge. And so how do we make progress? We get people involved. And we point it all out — point out the stupidities and the foolishness. With one voice all at the same time.

Steve: Or, as they like to say, point out the opportunities, right?

Henry: Yeah, we remain surrounded by insurmountable opportunities.

Steve: One of the things I think about sometimes is how to convince people that advocacy matters. Because advocacy is kind of abstract, right?

Henry: Yeah.

Steve: It seems like you really have to have faith in this process. Like, “Okay, I'm gonna rally people, I'm going to change people’s minds, and then magic happens, something's going to come out of it.” How do you make people believe in that?

Henry: … Here’s a long ago story from a bike conference. There was a guy who called himself Bicycle Bill from Biloxi. It was a regional conference. And he mentioned that he had shown up at numerous city council meetings, and he had been asking [for more attention to cycling needs], and had been getting nothing. The response he got from the conference leaders, one of whom went on to lead the League of American Bicyclists—Andy Clark—was that it is because they can dismiss you as an individual. “Oh, that's just Bicycle Bill.”

Steve: Right.

Henry: But when you get other people involved. And they realize it's coming from a lot of people. That’s when they are really going to go ahead and move.

Steve: That's interesting. So part of it is that it's not just your solo advocacy, it's advocacy with other people that makes the tangible difference, right?

Henry: Yes, because, indeed, they could just dismiss you: “Oh, that's just Bicycle Bill.”

And what we learned — again this was the late 90’s — and the bicycle coordinator of Seattle, I think, is the one who said this. He said: “If you can get a group of 25 people, you'll change your town. And here's how.” 

Everyone has to write a letter to a public official twice a year. 

Everyone goes to a public hearing twice a year. 

Everybody goes to a city council meeting twice a year. So, they're always hearing from someone different.

And then his fourth thing was: join a board or a town committee or whatever you have locally. Because that also is going to gain you more credibility. 

It's when they hear about the same thing from this person one week, and then again another week, and then somebody else in another week, it adds up. 

We heard a state rep once, a few years ago, who told us ... and this is, you know, a representative who's got 5,000, 10,000 voters — he said, “Most people don't contact us. So, if three different people contact me on the same issue in my district. Then that's my issue.”

Steve: Right.

Henry: And so, it might be the potholes on Smith Road, it might be a drainage issue, it might be ... I mean, for a state rep, it's more likely to be tangible. But, indeed, if he feels like they are independent, and each one is talking about, say, healthcare bills or grocery prices or something, then he's on it. 

Steve: Yeah. It's advocacy in the aggregate, right? That's what really is going to make the difference.

Henry: That's one way to put it.

But again, the key is to make sure you know what you're asking for. And to do it effectively. Ask effectively. If I click a box on my internet as a petition, here, add my name, that does not get a lot of respect from congressional offices. You know, from my experience, if I take the trouble to write my own letter, that is much more meaningful than if I sign my name at the bottom of somebody else's letter. You're trying to show that you are involved and somewhat knowledgeable. You don't have to have a deep knowledge. It's being consistent. 

I'll go back to [my experience with] Citizens Climate Lobby, which says, "We are polite, but persistent. Respectful, but relentless.” …

When you stay persistent, you are more likely to get through. In our case, it would be where Rebecca is delivering a message. And then we echo it to the people she's speaking to. “Oh, I hear you just heard from Rebecca about the need for more bike lanes on these roads. That's a very real need. These are the most dangerous roads in the city. What can you do to address it?”

Steve: I think that's a really good way to think about it as well, it's a way to have your voice heard, and then heard again, and then heard again. Because I know when I came to PEDS and to Atlanta Bicycle Coalition, for me, I came from a safety standpoint. I remember just moving around Atlanta as a pedestrian, and encountering unsafe, uncomfortable situations. And whether those were due to problems with the built environment or there were just thoughtless motorists, it was unsafe. And I was thinking, “I don't want to just complain. How do I actually have a voice to try to be part of the solution." 

And for me, supporting Propel — ABC and PEDS at the time — let me do that because I just always felt, after meeting the people in ABC and PEDS, that the organizations really were rooted in the community, and they really understood things I did not understand, like city transportation politics and policies. I just knew it was unsafe. I didn't know how to make it safer. So I always just trusted that they'd be able to make a difference. That they would echo my voice.

Steve: As you move around the city over the last five years, you see people in more modes of transportation, scooters, bike-shares, etc. I wonder, what's your opinion on how the Beltline has influenced people's perspective on all these different types of alternate transportation.

Henry: It's made them much more possible. But on the flip side, it’s like, “Oh, well, I can ride there because there are no cars.” And we have to be able to share the roadway system. I mean, roads were not made for cars alone. They were made for people traveling. And you go back, you know, 400, 300, 200 years, when Benjamin Franklin walked from Boston to Philadelphia, if I remember the story right. It took him several days. But roads were made for people walking, people with carts, people with horse and buggy. All manners of transportation is what roads were made for. And we don't acknowledge that anymore. Now it's like, well, you can have a Ford or a Chevy. But it's not, you can have a Schwinn. Or a one-wheel.

Steve: That's an interesting perspective. The Beltline is kind of double-edged in that way. It sort of shows us what's possible when you're isolated from traffic, but it doesn't help solve the problem of everywhere else in Atlanta. Where it's like, okay, we really want to be able to bike, or scoot or what have you, throughout Atlanta, not just on this one loop around Atlanta.

Henry: And one more big thing about it. When you build an attractive facility like the Beltline, then for a 2 or 3 mile radius you will increase the number of people on bicycles, scooters or whatever, going to it.

Steve: Right.

Henry: Most cities fail to say, “Oh. Here's a new section of highly attractive stuff. We need to make sure the roads are ready for an increased number of people who won't be driving.” So, in the case of what they're doing down south, Glenwood Avenue. And, you know, all the roads connected there. They should look and say, oh. Where will bicyclists go on these roads?

Steve: Right, you'd like to think it has that productive influence of, we know bikes will be here, okay, so how do we help improve at least that 2-mile, 3-mile radius around the Beltline.

Henry: Yeah. And one more big thing. This happened at the end of a bike/walk conference. The speaker said, how many of you bicycle? Most of us raised our hands in the air. But then they said, how many of you walk? Now, that was everybody. Except, I guess, the people in wheelchairs, depending on how you define walking. And that was a definite lesson for me, that, indeed everyone has experience walking. And, to an extent, that’s easier. Let’s call it an easier sell. With the idea that the store is here, the apartment is over there. Hey, we need a HAWK signal. I think that's an easier sell than oh, the store's here, the apartment’s there, we need a bikeway to connect them.

Steve: Right. That was one of the things that certainly I picked up having gone to some PEDS meetings — that notion that every commute ends with a walk. Whether you're walking from the public parking lot across the street to your office, whether you're walking from the train station to your grocery store. Whether you're walking from where you locked your bike up to where you're going, everything ends with a walk. And that walking happens everywhere.

Henry: And begins with a walk. Even if you walk into your garage to get your car or your bicycle. Or you walk to the bus stop or the MARTA station.

Steve: How do you think technology has changed the problem? I feel like technology has really put the “multi” in multimodal over the last 5-10 years. Electric bikes, scooters, Waymos, etc.

Henry: You know, basically, an e-bike reduces the effort of riding a bike to the effort of taking a walk. It's a similar caloric output. You burn as many calories walking as you do on an e-bike, typically. And that has opened up bicycling to all sorts of people. Many people really find it has given them another choice. And it has allowed them to conquer Atlanta's heat and humidity and hills. In ways that were unpredicted. 

When you ride through most of Atlanta, there are some hills, but they're manageable. I think about Ponce de Leon as having generally manageable hills. Peachtree Street. And so on. But when you go outside the perimeter to places that were built after 1960, 1970, etc, the developers were putting in roads that were much steeper. It can be great for bicycle training, but otherwise it has made it challenging for anybody to want to do something besides drive in those areas.

But with an e-bike, I can conquer it. It's not going to be magically easy. But it's possible compared to without an e-bike.

Steve: Yeah, I feel like it's extended people's range, and I think that allows them to run errands, to go further. And to me, it feels like it has thereby created more visibility for bikes throughout Atlanta. With the bike-shares, all of a sudden you have these bikes kind of just everywhere, just hanging out, at least kind of in the downtown area.

Steve: Okay. So what's your vision for transportation in Atlanta in the near future? Like, what excites you these days?

Henry: E-bikes are the most exciting thing, but what we know... ecologically, is that mono-cropping is a bad thing to do. If you have all of your eggs in a single basket, you can get stuck. That has happened when Atlanta's been hit by snowstorms. Some of the greatest stories were people who said, well, I was able to take MARTA.

You know, it's either that, or you start out walking. And that was shown to us on Don't Drive Day, the number of people who said, well, what am I supposed to do? Walk? They had no other means of transportation. And, you know, I'm optimistic that we have more people who are willing to consider, you know, e-bikes, scooters, whatever.  That they see those as possible modes of transportation.

The vision is to have a variety of choices. On some journeys, I can choose between walking, and biking, taking MARTA, and driving if I want to. And usually I don't want to drive to the places that I'm going.  If I drive, I've got this two-ton vehicle. Where am I gonna put it while I'm down there?

Driving is very seductive. Ivan Illich told us the car creates distances it alone can master. 

Say you have your cabin on Lake Lanier. Or in the mountains. You, you are not going to be saying, oh yeah. I'll bicycle that 60 miles.

By contrast, my cousin in Denmark has a summer house some 60 miles south of Copenhagen. But he is able to take the train up to a couple of miles of it.

We don't have that opportunity to speak of.

Steve: Any other things that were fun that you all did in the past?

Henry: Well, the fun thing was always riding my bicycle. Biking is just so much damn fun.

Steve: That’s the heart of it, right?

Henry: It's quiet. It's inexpensive. It doesn't rely on foreign countries. It’s the wind in your face, the stillness. The chance to see things you haven't seen before. All these wonderful things are out there, just waiting for us to learn and discover. Even if it's a route I've ridden. I rode the same route to work for umpteen years. So, thousands of times on that route, and nonetheless, every time there would be something a little different. You know, sometimes a new hazard. Sometimes a new delight to see.

Steve: Yeah, certainly, I feel the same way about riding my bike and about walking as well. You just see so much more of the city. You’re going through it in a more deliberate manner at some level, and you just see all the nooks and crannies, and it's really interesting.

Henry: It's slow enough to stop. And silent enough not to disturb people.

Steve: Henry, thanks again for taking the time to talk.

Henry: In sum, the message is that Propel’s success in many ways is due to inspiring group action.

Steve: Yes, I think so. Well, I know your passion and vision will continue to energize Propel ATL and help transform Atlanta for the better.

Henry: That's what it's all about. We used to just use the slogan, “Want better biking? Join us.”

That’s what we have so far delivered reasonably well: Better biking, more places, more safety.

Steve: Yeah. “Want safer, more inclusive streets? Join us.”